Poll: Your Thoughts On a Ground PvP Tournament
This poll is closed.
Ground *Dusts of Armor and Weapons* "Let's do this"
60.00%
6 60.00%
Ground *Shrugs* "maybe, dunno, whatever..."
0%
0 0%
Ground *Runs away screaming* "NOOOOOOES"
40.00%
4 40.00%
Total 10 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Blackthorns Ground King Of The Ring Tournament
#21
First off, I appreciate all the caveats. But I do also believe it's important to build some positive energy around this (I was a hippy for a while, okay?), so let's talk solutions and how we can build non-stressful competitiveness around this...

I mean, I think it would be really good to frame PvP within chat and within the fleet as a way just to hone one's abilities, rather than some kind of pissing contest. From the little I've seen of PvP gone wrong, it's about someone's ego getting hurt... and, if we really stress the self-improvement angle, I think the tournament aspect can just add a little incentive behind everyone getting more creative on the ground, rather than having "winning" be the only objective.

As far as "classes" go, again, the only classes I've taken in PvP have been each time I got killed... whether at BT's hands (most likely) or hyperluminal's or JB's or... and learning about how I got taken down, what to look out for, etc.

That said, more than putting this all on Blackthorn running some kind of curriculum, I suggest we carry on a conversation about tactics vs. certain play styles. We can try stuff out and share our knowledge here... it'll make us all better players in general, I think...

For example:
I've noticed that engineers often camp out with all kinds of toys and protect their stuff with cover shields... A few things I like to do with bunker-builders are:
  1. If there are two entrances, fake going one way until the engi has build up their forces by one entrance, then turn back once you see the little red dots start popping up (forcing some cooldowns)
  2. Hit the outer defenses with some kind of AOE DoT thing (everyone knows that my preference is ice), ideally with some kind of slow or confuse effect.
  3. Back off, pulling the mobile fabrications (like drones) away from the sessile (like turrets) ones and take those down while out of sight of the turrets
  4. Use kit modules that create contagious confusion effects in order to get the toys to target each other and such (I've been messing with Pheromones but I'd think Incite Chaos would work nicely)
  5. Keep moving... even if you're out of line-of-sight, as those mortars can get you anywhere
  6. Be aware of pillars and other obstacles that can protect you from turrets and other stationary items
  7. The Concussive Tachyon Emission is awesome

Those are just a few of the things I've learned from being killed (oh, what, now? maybe 60-90 times?) by Blackthorn... and there, too, is my argument for losing in PvP, lol...

And if someone thinks a particular build is OP, they may consider entering the tournament with such a toon... it's win-win: either they find out that PvP isn't as broken as they thought or they win some shiny stuff. Or they may consider it boring, annoying, not worth it... and that's cool, too.

#22
What are you doing about Gear Equality?
#23
(04-28-2015, 06:19 PM)Jstagg Wrote: What are you doing about Gear Equality?
Or Lock Box Trait Equality, for that matter?
#24
(04-28-2015, 07:00 PM)TacPaddy Wrote: Or Lock Box Trait Equality, for that matter?

Or Spec Points Equality?


Although I have very high opinion about PvP and think that it should become most of end-game for games... 
In STO it's messed up and there are no plans on fixing it.

If you ban certain stuff, people will complain, if you allow everything people will complain and in the end it will fall on very few people that will have fun in it for some time until it all falls apart.

Don't get me wrong, go with it if you think you can manage it so that everyone's happy, but I was there with War Games from beginning until the end.
Like someone above said, it's hard to make something work when system is broken.

GL&HF!

Jolan Tru!
#25
After sitting around and watching this conversation. I'm noticing that this must be similar to what the dev team does or not. just like with everything else in the game some people are never happy. ie: some people aren't happy unless they win or get everything. Sorry for rambling, but my point is maybe we could keep this as a private event. Maybe that would help.
#26
(04-28-2015, 07:37 PM)garretwescott83 Wrote: After sitting around and watching this conversation. I'm noticing that this must be similar to what  the dev team does or not. just like with everything else in the game some people are never happy. ie: some people aren't happy unless they win or get everything. Sorry for  rambling, but  my point is maybe we could keep this as a private event. Maybe  that would help.

As in within the Fleet?

That was the case anyway.
#27
(04-28-2015, 06:19 PM)Jstagg Wrote: What are you doing about Gear Equality?

(04-28-2015, 07:00 PM)TacPaddy Wrote: Or Lock Box Trait Equality, for that matter?

(04-28-2015, 07:20 PM)Xhopeon Wrote: Or Spec Points Equality?


Although I have very high opinion about PvP and think that it should become most of end-game for games... 
In STO it's messed up and there are no plans on fixing it.

If you ban certain stuff, people will complain, if you allow everything people will complain and in the end it will fall on very few people that will have fun in it for some time until it all falls apart.

Don't get me wrong, go with it if you think you can manage it so that everyone's happy, but I was there with War Games from beginning until the end.
Like someone above said, it's hard to make something work when system is broken.

GL&HF!

Jolan Tru!

 Hi fleet,

(practicing my school debating skills here... Live Long and Prosper

Looking at how this thread has developed Undecided , I would politely ask if you guys have understood the main point of this event, which is mainly for pVp ground improvement and not just for the winning. This makes your points on inequalities irrelevant as winning is only a secondary concern/ incentive. Of course thing will be unfair for some people who have mk 12 vs mk 14 gear, but again, the whole point of this tournament for the huge majority of us is for the fun, challenge, and for the improvement ( via experience and peer assessment). For this the equality differential ( for winning) is significantly made redundant by the people who just want to learn tactics, builds and other pvp techniques in a slightly competitive setting. 
This desire for positive improvement also makes your previously argument that this will cause catastrophic arguments by sore losers also irrelevant or at least far less potent. People who want to improve via learning ( in this case the hard way) are not to going to get angry if they lose especially when winning is a secondary concern,  and losing  is a huge part of the process of learning and improving. 

 If we regulate people's inequalities ( which for this is impossible) this could actually lead to a pretty bad slippery slope for the fleet. Confused SIDE NOTE-  For example, the dilithium fleet commendations cost a huge amount of fleet credits ( 1 mil for bronze). The easiest and best way to obtain FC is to give dilithium, and so if people are getting over 25 million FC are giving potentially huge quantities of dilithium, for which they are likely spending real money as the game provides too little in game for this. This is a real world inequality- using this judgement ( which I admit is a generalization and possibly inaccurate) the people who have enough real world resources ( dollars and pounds) to spend for dilithium in bulk amounts get the commendations while the people who are just using in game resources will take potentially years to get just bronze. SIDE NOTE finished

Hope this isn't too controversial but addresses the issues at hand, and hope that this 'taboo' over ground eventually will be broken,  Angel

AAAICT

p.s. about the dil stuff- I for one would be happy if people tell me what I've said is wrong.  Wink
#28
(04-28-2015, 07:52 PM)Jstagg Wrote: As in within the Fleet?

That was the case anyway.
Anywhere in the game. I read about it in the zone chat (when I look at it) and the forum of the other fleet I'm in. People complain about the story's being to short or the question missions being too hard.
#29
aaaict Wrote:This makes your points on inequalities irrelevant as winning is only a secondary concern
AAAICT

If that's the case why is the thread titled KING OF THE RING TOURNAMENT instead of PVP Training Camp or something similar? Having a tournament implies a victor will be crowned and that means winning is key, and that means people will do whatever is needed to win. BT clearly wants to have a contest based on the original post.


#30
(04-28-2015, 08:11 PM)robonixon Wrote: If that's the case why is the thread titled KING OF THE RING TOURNAMENT instead of PVP Training Camp or something similar? Having a tournament implies a victor will be crowned and that means winning is key, and that means people will do whatever is needed to win. BT clearly wants to have a contest based on the original post.

Yes, but most of us are using this as an improvement opportunity and so winning is a secondary concern. The point is if winning is not the entire objective, then people are far less likely to become angry if they lose and hence this 'doomsday scenario' that some are predicting will never happen. 


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