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Full Version: Fleet Bank, Fleet rules & current "value" of Fleet ranks
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TacPaddy

This is just my opinion based on recent observations of the fleet. Before I start, I want to emphasize, that I am aware of the liberal nature of STOA and that I really like that its members are not forced to do anything (except for taking the Captain's Test).
Now today, I have taken a look at the LEgion's Fleet Bank. After seeing the mess in there, I took some minutes to think about how things are in STOA. Here are the results of that:

1. Fleet Bank
I am not really sure, if the Fleet Bank is still used in its intended use. These are my observation based on the Legion Fleet Bank:
  • Training Manuals: Filled with super cheap BOFF Training Manuals, that can easily be purchased from any BOFF Skill Trainer (for cheap) and even BOFF Candidates. I really think, that Tab should be limited to craftable Specialization BOFF Training Manuals and those from Lock Boxes.
  • Health Tab: Supposed to have NO small and medium Hypos, Regeneratos, Components, etc. Yet small and medium Regenerators / Components are present in there all the time. Maybe the restrictions should be clarified into Regenerators and Components only.
  • Crafting Tab: Filled with tons of Materials that no one really wants anymore. Should be repurposed to maybe hold Tech upgrade donations.
  • Resale Tab: Filled with tons of Commodities, which are practically no longer needed (at least not for Fleet Holdings). Should also be repurposed to maybe hold craftable Consumables.

2. Fleet rules
While I dig the "we don't enforce anything" perspective, I think the fleet rules should at least be enforced and at that in a noticeable way. Otherwise, it is just an invitation to screw the rules. But how to enforce them? I recommend that upon the first violation of the fleet rules, there should be a demotion to Acting Captain for a month. The previous rank shall only be re-instated after taking the Captain's test again. If that shot across the bow was not enough of a wake up call, then the second violation shall be handled with an expulsion from the fleet, IF the second violation occured within a certain period of time after the first one. Let's say three months. After that a new violation should be handled as a first one with a new demotion.

3. Fleet ranks
In general, there is nothing wrong with the Fleet ranks. Multiple ranks with mulitple criteria for advancement. However, thanks to Cryptic's closure of the Gateway and the Admiralty's forced adaptation to that situation, there has been a wave of promotion on an inflationary level. It makes you to re-evaluate the promotion criteria. Especially the value of the rank of Commodore has become "debatable" as its "value" no longer is the same it once was. But to be honest, the was already the case even before the closure of the Gateway.
I don't intend to offend anyone or depreciate anyone's accomplishments, but don't you think that a Commodore who got promoted by playing for themselves (with little or no interaction) weighs different then a Commodore who gives advice on the Forums, engages in Ground AND Space fleet runs and works toward the improvement of Fleet Holdings? I think, that there should be a new rank for those fulfilling the Rear Admiral commendation criteria (those need to be updated, btw). I do realize, that this sounds strange coming from me (fitting all that criteria), but I do not think of this for myself, but for all the hard working Commodores. After all there certainly are Commodores, who strive for advancement but don't seek out or qualify in other ways for Flag Officer status (yet).
If the Admiralty agrees, I have two separate ideas on how that idea could be implemented.

So, what do you think? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Let's hear it!
I'll just reply point by point so at least it's in the same format.

1. Fleet Bank
  • Even if it is just the cheap, easily obtained manuals, it's still cheaper for the user to pick these out from the fleet bank. So why not do that?
  • A decent point made but none-the-less pedantic. These get removed, sold, and the credits put back into the bank. Might not happen immediately or all the time, but it happens.
  • A decent suggestion. The majority of materials are basic materials that are still usable by everybody however.
  • Commodities can still be sold, regardless of their value.
2. Fleet Rules


Somewhat unbeknown to you these are enforced, periodically with temporary demotions. There is no fixed penalty and infractions are dealt with on a case by case basis. Needless to say, we already have a process, and this is only used when necessary. So you can have peace of mind that there is at least oversight when we feel that the rules have been substantially abused.

3. Fleet ranks

You're right, in general there isn't anything wrong with the fleet ranks. If anything, the only thing wrong is that there aren't enough of them, and fleets haven't been given the facility to have a custom amount of ranks to suit the fleet's individual needs.
It is a pity we have had to adapt to use a different system, but adapt we have, and although already we have had some teething problems, it has worked for the most part. Inflationary isn't the word I would use however. I would rather use the phrase "in line with" the new commendations that were put in place because of that adaptation. However you value that, is personal to you, as it has effected different people individually.
I bring you back to the "not enough ranks" point for the next one, and I appreciate where you're coming from. However the format will stand for any new Rear Admirals when that happens, and the applicant's activity will show when they've done the application form, which has been designed with situational theory (I am aware this needs updated and it has been noted already - you must really underestimate what I actually pay attention to).
I don't think you're depreciating or devaluing any body's achievements, like I said everyone appreciates that in their own way. There are people who want to hunt the commendations out and there are others who might just achieve them and not even think about it - there needs to be an appreciation there of how other people play the game and interact in the fleet, which is also an individual experience. If people get promoted with little or no interaction, all that person has done is followed the rules, played when they can, interacted when they've wanted to interact, and played the game just how they want to play the game. There is no crime or punishment for that. There is certainly nothing wrong with it, and the system we have for promotions offers players multiple ways to earn a promotion should they wish to.

And Paddy, I think we've all seen stranger things out of you lol.

I unfortunately do not agree with a lot of this, and there are points from this I will certainly take away, and points I won't. However in saying that, your suggestions are welcome in my private mailbox at any time, and I will certainly look them over.
1. The fleet bank was never used as intended lol let's be honest, it's completely useless.

2. It's very rare that someone breaks the rules. Even when it does happen, the rule itself and the motive behind the infraction determines the action we take. Unfortunately there's no catch-all scenario. Even in the real world everyone is sentenced differently depending on a variety of factors.

3. Any member who earns their rank through any commendation weighs exactly the same as any other. Although it also depends in what context you're speaking. If we're looking to promote someone to Rear Admiral, we look for specific commendations which give us an indication of how that person plays the game. I see no reason to have a separate rank just for that.

TacPaddy

(08-04-2017, 04:46 PM)Attilio Wrote: [ -> ]1. The fleet bank was never used as intended lol let's be honest, it's completely useless.
THANK YOU! I did not want to say it that bluntly, but it's my thought exactly.

(08-04-2017, 04:45 PM)James Wrote: [ -> ]2. Fleet Rules
Somewhat unbeknown to you these are enforced, periodically with temporary demotions. There is no fixed penalty and infractions are dealt with on a case by case basis. Needless to say, we already have a process, and this is only used when necessary. So you can have peace of mind that there is at least oversight when we feel that the rules have been substantially abused.
(08-04-2017, 04:46 PM)Attilio Wrote: [ -> ]2. It's very rare that someone breaks the rules. Even when it does happen, the rule itself and the motive behind the infraction determines the action we take. Unfortunately there's no catch-all scenario. Even in the real world everyone is sentenced differently depending on a variety of factors.
I just felt, that maybe a set penalty would encourage people to abide to our simple rules a bit more. Anyway, I stand corrected regarding the enforcing.


(08-04-2017, 04:45 PM)James Wrote: [ -> ]3. Fleet ranks
I bring you back to the "not enough ranks" point for the next one, and I appreciate where you're coming from. However the format will stand for any new Rear Admirals when that happens, and the applicant's activity will show when they've done the application form, which has been designed with situational theory (I am aware this needs updated and it has been noted already - you must really underestimate what I actually pay attention to).
(08-04-2017, 04:46 PM)Attilio Wrote: [ -> ]3. Any member who earns their rank through any commendation weighs exactly the same as any other. Although it also depends in what context you're speaking. If we're looking to promote someone to Rear Admiral, we look for specific commendations which give us an indication of how that person plays the game. I see no reason to have a separate rank just for that.
Well, my idea didn't involve changing the ingame ranks (of which I think more of permission levels, tbh). The change would rather constitute a change of the repsective fleet uniforms as well as forum signature.

(08-04-2017, 04:45 PM)James Wrote: [ -> ]And Paddy, I think we've all seen stranger things out of you lol.
I will not deny that indisputable fact. LOL. Seriously though, did someone keep track and made a list?
(08-04-2017, 05:13 PM)TacPaddy Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously though, did someone keep track and made a list?

No. We have lives lol

TacPaddy

(08-04-2017, 05:17 PM)James Wrote: [ -> ]No. We have lives lol
Thank the Almighty. LMAO.
(08-04-2017, 05:13 PM)TacPaddy Wrote: [ -> ]Well, my idea didn't involve changing the ingame ranks (of which I think more of permission levels, tbh). The change would rather constitute a change of the repsective fleet uniforms as well as forum signature.

That sounds like more work for me. I've always been a nice guy, why do you hate me? hahaha

TacPaddy

"It's in my nature!" LOL
(08-04-2017, 05:33 PM)TacPaddy Wrote: [ -> ]"It's in my nature!" LOL

LOL
Some sort of fleet exchange was sort of operating on the forum for a while, if I recall, which was like a more useful fleetbank - instead of putting something in there which might be useful to someone at some point, people would ask that certain things be sent to them. I might, however, be imagining it.

Would be good though. "Any people beam arrays of this damage type" which come from the rep boxes could be sent - when a phaser drops, for example, I have no use for it what so ever. I can't put it all in the fleet bank, so I end up selling enough items which would fit out a ship nicely for someone starting the final push


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